Arlene Hunt. There you go, that’s it. That’s the name I’ve had for nearly 38 years. It’s on my passport, my driving license, my books, my mortgage paper work, oh, and my birth cert. Suffice to say it is as much a part of my identity as my grey eyes and my height.
So much a part of my identity is it that when I got married I kept my name. It wasn’t a big decision, there was no major discussion, I never thought to take Andrew’s name, he never expected me to do so. I’m me, he is he, together we are we, but individual wees * .
It comes then as something of a surprise to me that in 2010 the keeping of one’s own name might cause an eyebrow raise. I have caused some confusion. Why did I not take his name when we became man and wife? Was he ‘okay’ with this? ( no, really) What if we have children? What will they be called** And my personal favourite, ‘why get married at all if you’re going to keep your own name?’ ***
I might point out that my husband’s family never subjected me to this kind of questioning, nor my own family for that matter, rather it seems the unease exists in people who are in no way connected to me on a personal level, and thus it makes me ponder all the more why my surname should trouble them so unduly.
I like my surname. It is the same surname my daughter has, I use it professionally. But all of those reasons pale in comparison to the real reason I am still Arlene Hunt, and that is because I find the notion of trading in my name for another to be old-fashioned and frankly not something I would care to do.
I get that for some people marriage is the start of a new life and new family, but Andrew and I lived together for many years before marriage, keeping happily our names while sharing a life. Once the rings were exchanged neither of us gave any real thought to the politics of a name change. He was still him, I was still me, our we had a more legal basis, but still much the same.
A friend recently told me that her husband would have been grievously hurt had she not changed her name after marriage. It might even have been a deal breaker. I said ‘I see.’ And I did see, but part of me also thought, well why did it have to be you who capitulated. Why not him? What if you had been hurt about the loss of your name? Oh that’s right, it was expected that she would change, after all there is the small matter of that great sleeping dog, tradition. Let it lay slumbering.
Anyway, far be it for me to disparage any woman’s decision. If she was happy to change her name for the sake of peace and quiet so be it. Also many women actively want to change their names to create a new family/identity. I did not. There ought to be room for all of us, without the raised eyebrows and the quick reach for the fainting couch upon learning that the sleeping dog just had its tail trod on.
If I may borrow Shakespeare for a neat little ending,
“What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.”
* yes I know how that sounds.
** Dear lord if I discovered I was pregnant names would be the very least of my concerns.
***er tax? Love? Tax?
Anthea McTeirnan
Croí na Duibhlinn
Aoife Barry
Aoife McLysaght
Arlene Hunt
Attracta McCarthy-McKenna
clairehennessy
Ann Cronin
Amanda Brown
Eleanor Fitzsimons
Edel Coffey
Anna Carey
Lauren Murphy
Jennie Ridyard
Jude Leavy
Hazel Katherine Larkin
Léan Ní Chuilleanáin
Leigh
Lisa McInerney
Laura Slattery
Maman Poulet
Megan McGurk
Clare Kleinedler
Molly
Rosita Boland
Catherine Crichton
Sinéad Gleeson
sarahefranklin
siobhandowling
Susan Daly
theantiroom
Nuala Ní Chonchúir
Never even crossed my mind – or that of my husband – to change my name when I got married. I was amazed to find that women still do this. Yes I get the usual confusion regarding the fact that my children have a different name from me but I really believe that some people are being deliberately obtuse – it’s not that hard to grasp. Also my husband often gets called my name when I’ve booked something and he shrugs and happily goes along with it. A friend who lives in Spain and is married to a Spaniard tells me that Spanish women never change their name. Sounds good to me. If people want to do so fine but it does seem a very archaic practice and the word “ownership” pops into my head.
Yeah, in Spain and in most Spanish-speaking countries no one changes their name. Same in the Islamic world – it’s considered unislamic for a woman to change her name to her husband’s.
In spain they combine one name from each parent’s surnames and that’s the child’s name. Which is rather nice I think.
I’ve been called by Andrew’s surname a few times, and it honestly doesn’t bother me at all. But it’s not my name. And like you say Eleanor, it shouldn’t really be that difficult a concept to understand. The confusion confuses the heck out of me!
I can imagine that changing name is a real hassle for some people, it is particularly difficult professionally.
At the same time there are reasons to do it as well:
1) I know a couple in Sweden where the man took the woman’s surname because she was the end of the line for that surname.
2) My wife took my name because it was more pronouncable and less foreign than hers. Many people change their own name anyway when they move country for the same reason.
3) If everybody has the same name in a family it is much more straightforward for outsiders, you don’t have the issue of not knowing the husband’s surname if you are sending a card (a very real problem I have experienced).
It is a tricky one though, I know very touchy people on both sides of the debate. Personally my name is deadly so I ain’t changing it for no-one!
Love it, katherine.
Aidan, point number 3 is a good one, it can get confusing around christmas time, but people normally hyphen the names now, the bla-blah household. That sort of thing.
Like the fact that your post steers clear of bashing women who do decide to take their husband’s name. I did, for several reasons, one of which was that I preferred it to my own surname. Shallow perhaps, but there you go. I also like that everyone in our family has the same surname, makes me feel like we are more of a ‘team’.
It really ticks me off when other women criticise my decision. No, I am not my husband’s property, he didn’t ask/expect me to do it and we are absolutely equal partners in the marriage. It’s really not a big deal, get over it.
That’s not shallow at all, people like what they like and it’s got to be what is right for you and your family, after all you’re going to be the one using it.
When I was a child I was humiliated by a teacher over a surname I adopted in sixth class. It was the same of my foster parent and I used it because I wanted to ‘fit in’.
I wrote Arlene McWilliams on my composition copy book and he held it aloft saying ‘ Oh? We must have new pupil I didn’t know about, who is this person? Does anyone know of an Arlene McWilliams?’
Now there were about 6 people in my class so he knew fine well, but I never forgot the burning shame of every one laughing at me.
I hope my post opens up a place for the why and why nots to be discussed rather than finger pointing.
i considered changing mine, as i like the idea of us sharing a surname, but the options weren’t great: Clare Clarke (sounds like Marklar) or, should i use the irish version (my given surname is in irish) Clare Uí Chléirigh (pronounced Clarey Clarey).
turns out i don’t like the idea of us sharing a surname so much anymore.
I think Irish surnames are really beautiful. Mine is ní Fhiacra, which I like the sound of, but it would be very difficult to pronounce. A friend of mine is called Siobhán and by golly does that get mangled when she is abroad.
Much like Catherine Crichton, I rather liked my husbands surname with my first name. It was made very clear to him that I took his name for the alliteration – the chance to sound like I might run a private detective agency, be an Olympian or a superhero girlfriend – had his name been ramsbottom* I’d have stuck with my “maiden” name (how I hate that term now, don’t get me started!)
I’ve done little for the sake of pleasing people in my life, civil marriage, no baptising the child etc.
So if you feel strongly about your name, or view changing it as a form of ownership then fine don’t change it. But if you fancy a change? Then do.
*no offence ramsbottom families…
There was a report going round the blogs a while back about a guy in the U.S. who tried to change his name after marriage. He was charged a few hundred dollars and had to fill in tons of forms. The message was clear that name changing was something women did, not men.
I love alliteration too much to have changed my name, in addition to my identity politics.
I don’t really think the whole having kids thing holds up as a reason though.
A friend of mine had some oul biddy say to her “Won’t it confuse your daughter when she has a different name to her mother?”. Her response was “my daughter knows who her mother is.”
I didn’t change my name at marriage, never really felt like it was something I wanted to do. The hubbie’s family needed a lot of reasons, they couldn’t understand why I didn’t want his name. In the end I pointed out that they were a large family and I was the last of my line.
They still protest by sending xmas cards addressed to Mr & Mrs XXXXX instead of using my name and several people in my family insist on double-barrelling it, even though my husband & I both hate it.
I think they do it because they find it funny, but it really pisses me off every time post arrives addressed like that. We’re 3 years married now and if it keeps happening I think I will start returning the post “not know at this address”….
Have you said it to them that it annoys you so much, Elly? If you have I would consider that poor form to keep doing it. (Although I appreciate it can be awkward to confront family on these issues- especially if they think it’s harmless joking about)
Katherine, that’s a tremendous reply, and good for her.
Megan- I think I read somewhere that folk are now combining names to make an original name. Like John Smith and Mary Murphy could be John and Mary Smurfy! Er, I don’t think that would work for me, Munt does not really have much of a ring to it.
Jill- the ‘maiden’ name malarky makes me laugh too, my ‘espinster’ name is much better.
It probably *will* keep happening, Elly. The extended family on both sides tend to forget and just assume I’ve changed my name.
I didn’t change my name because I didn’t see the point, no big deal. He didn’t see the point either. The families were a bit unsure (and “what are you going to call the kids” came up) but were generally okay. But other people – I was amazed at the shock. It was even suggested that not changing my name suggested I was ashamed of my husband. Can you imagine!
Arlene, they are well aware, but I think that they continue to do it as they dislike my decision…
Cathyby – I easily forgive the extended family as I can see that it would be easy for them to forget, but I’m referring to my sisters-in-law who are the worst offenders!
Oh wow, they need to get over that and be more respectful of your decision.
Really interesting post.
I was going to change my sir name because I have always found my own dull and got asked “How now Brown cow?” every day for a year at school (not that if I hadn’t had a different name they wouldn’t have found a way – they all do to everyone – I know)
Anyway, Amanda Delevan sounded too good to pass up so I said I’d change it.
But then after marriage I sort of felt a bit weird about it, like a fake. And then there was the issue that we were both journalists and both wrote for couple of the same papers.
My politics were often the reverse of my husbands. Also, he had already been falsely credited with writing one or two of my better articles by some of the lads in the office.
Then there was all the hassle of changing passport and drivers licence.
I decided to stick with my own name (can’t bring myself to use “maiden name” sounds like “maiden head” or “maiden aunt” or “old maiden” none of them with good connotations – think “maiden” is shorthand for “crusty old virgin”)
Husband did look a little hurt and HSE babycare home visitor actually had a go at me “Think of Baby!!! Baby will get confused when it’s time to go to school.”
I laughed. She couldn’t even remember “Baby’s” first name. She was called Mary, as was every single one of her colleagues, bar one. It was dead handy when I’d just given birth and could barely remember my own first name, let alone the endless stream of middle aged ladies trilling “Mummy knows best” while they explained how you were doing it all wrong.
I digress.
I’m glad I kept my name. It’s mine and it might make me a cow but it is what I am.
I didn’t change my name either, I couldn’t work out the logic of it. If he didn’t have to, why should I, we agreed that if we had kids we use his surname as it’s rare, but other than that there’s no reason for me to use it. I accept Mr & Mrs D (he’s David) [HisSurname] but I got even more trenchant in this when I received a birthday card addressed to Mrs David [HisSurname] because proper protocol has it that that only if he was dead would I be Deirdre [HisSurname] Now that’s something that needs to stop, I felt like my whole self was being subsumed by my being married to him.
I took my husband’s name, but only because I really didn’t like my own. It’s awfully clunky; I’ve always hated it!
Funny thing is that my name was my mother’s – my father was never part of my life so I ended up with the maternal grandparents’ family name. My mother then went on to marry a different guy, took HIS name, so now she has a different name to me, and … Holy Christ, I’ve confused myself here.
Seems the McInerney married-in wimminfolk are extremely fond of the surname. My father-in-law is divorced from Wife #1 and separated from Wife #2, and both held on to McInerney afterwards. Forgive the pun, but it’s got a real ring to it.
My daughter’s is double-barrelled, so technically she has a different name to me, too! Double-barrelling seems to declunkisise the surname, so perhaps I should have thought of that. I remember at the time, I was quite enamoured with the whole “new identity” thing, though.
In fact, I’d have absolutely no problem changing surnames again if I had to! Ah, the air of mystery…
Elly – my parents have been married for nearly 35 years. She didn’t change her name, and she STILL gets post addressed to my dad’s name. Even some of her friends do it, despite knowing full well that it isn’t her name.
It being a problem for the children is total rubbish. I have never once in my life been confused about the fact that my mother has a different last name to my father, or that she has a different last name to me. It has never bothered me even slightly. I do get the odd query about it, but it’s simple enough to put people straight on it.
I definitely plan on keeping my own name if I ever get married. I have an unusual last name, and combined with my Irish first name I’m convinced I’m the only person with my name in the entire world. Why would I give that up?! And even without that, it’s my name, and I would feel weird about just up and changing it one day!
I have no problems with anyone deciding to change their name. It’s everyone’s individual choice. But if I was marrying a guy that thought it was a dealbreaker if I didnt change my name, that would be a dealbreaker on my end. It’d be my choice either way, as far as I’m concerned, and I wouldn’t be happy with anyone trying to force me either way!
I wonder is there an age question in this. I’m 41 and I kept my name when I got married and pretty much all of my friends of the same age did too but I think younger women are more inclined to take their husband’s names. Could it be what’s fashionable/normal or is it all part of the post-feminist world?
That’s interesting, I asked Jordan would she change her name if she got married and she said ‘for what?’ But most, if not all of the younger women ( 20s) I know who are married have changed theirs.
I’ve been married for two years and I feel strongly about the whole name-changing thing. I never considered doing it and
I particularly hate the fact that some women feel they have to justify keeping their names, coming up with reasons why it’s important. I can’t imagine a man ever having to explain why he doesn’t want to change his name to that of his partner.
But nothing gets me going as much as the ridiculous argument that “well, your surname’s just your father’s name anyway, so you’ve already got a man’s name.” By that token, my dad’s name just belongs to my grandad. But no, under this argument somehow men get to “own” their names from birth, while we’re just borrowing them for about 30 years. My name became mine as soon as it was given to me as a baby – it’s not my dad’s.
Anyway, I’ve luckily never had any hassle at all about keeping my name from either side. I don’t think I’d be able to stay calm in the face of the behaviour Elly describes above. I’d have started sending the post back! Luckily for me, my parents and in-laws were delighted I was keeping my name. I think they’d have been freaked out if I’d done it – both my mother and my mother-in-law did change their names, but despite the fact that both have been happily married for nearly 40 years, they’ve each said at various times that they wished they hadn’t changed their names. My mum said she didn’t really realise she had a choice.
That is quite interesting, Anne and Arlene. I don’t think that it is part of a post-feminist world but an abandonment of feminist thought and a resurgence of more traditional, conservative values and a strong dose of apathy amongst younger women. As a feminist in my 20s, I frequently get comments about how pointless and old-fashioned feminism is, generally from a biological determinism standpoint.
I wouldn’t change my surname. I like it way too much, and it’s unusual so I couldn’t bear changing it. I agree with Aideen about it being a dealbreaker for someone else would be a major dealbreaker for me.
Raising a daughter I gave her the shoulders of giants speech a long time ago with regards to feminism lest the ‘ohh so old fashioned bra burning ‘man hatin’ rah rah’ conversation ever entered her domain. And like you I do hear it amongst younger women, this notion that what they take for granted has always been the case. Nu huh youngsters, it was not so very long ago that if you got married you couldn’t even keep a civil servant’s job! Let alone keep a surname.
I think apathy sums it up nicely, apathy and a lack of understanding how much each generation has prospered on the backs of brave and forthright women- and men that went before it.
Well the argument about your surname just being your father’s name is pretty specious given the many varied origins of surnames. Why do women have Mac surnames, surely the should have Nic surnames if you apply logic, after all?
If you look at the Icelandic naming conventions you see how fragile the notion is of a ‘permanent’surname. There the phone book is arranged in first name alphabetical order. If I am look for Björk’s number I look under Björk and then Guðmundsdóttir (not son note).
My daughters would have the surname Aidansdóttir (or probably Odinsdottir as you can only have an Iceladic name). Alternatively they can also use their mother’s name so Björk’s could be Björksdóttir or Björksson.
Personally I much prefer this system which does away with the tribes carrying the same surname.
I suppose the Mac and Nics got amalgamated when the surnames became more modern, they stopped being the daughter of and son of and just became the family name. I could be totally wrong, but I thought I read that in gaelige speaking areas the surnames names more gender divided?
( I don’t know this, and am genuinely curious)
the middle bits in irish denote your marital status – “Ní” means “daughter of” (from “iníon”) but were i to take Andrew’s name i would be Bean Uí Chléirigh – Clarke’s wife. there’s no Ms. option, so a lot of women stick with the Ní or dispense with the middle bit altogether.
i’m not sure i like the possessive pronoun, but the grammarian in me would insist on using the correct form.
They got standardized in their English version but every Irish person has an Irish language version of the name in that form often feminized in my experience. So Moya Brennan is Máire Ní Bhraonáin but her brothers are Ó Braonáin, McCarthys have Nic Carthaigh surnames etc.
Personally I like it when people drop the anglicized, masculine forms of theit names and go back to the Irish gender specific forms. I should add that I never did that myself but it is hard enough getting preople to pronounce Walsh where I live, never mind what they might do to Breathnach.
In some of Irish-speaking areas women never took their husband’s surnames, eg. Peig Sayers. In Connemara people were known as much by the patronymic (or occasionally matronymic) anyway e.g. Seán Phádraig Choilm marries Nora Thadhg Thomais and they have a child known as Séamus Shéain Phádraig. If Nora is left a widow or if she is well known in the area and the husband is from somewhere else the child might be known as Séamus Nora Thadhg. (The third or grandfather’s name is not always used if not required for disambiguation. )
In Scotland most women never took their husband’s names until the 20th century – after that name-changing became more common.
It was never a big deal for me if Anne changed her name or not when we got married. She decided to based mainly on the fact that she wanted to have the same surnames as the kids and didn’t want two surnames in their names.
I’m an only child of an only child, so there are very few of us left with the name Morris. But neither I, nor my Dad care about longevity of our surname. It’s just a name and we don’t feel it has any bearing on our identity. I honestly wouldn’t care about losing my name.
When we had our first daughter, I could not BELIEVE the amount of people (men and women) who said “Ah, would ya like a son, to y’know, carry the name on?” UGH! And then the same with our second daughter. UGH again!
Our third child was a boy. Same people: “Ah, ya got your son. that’s lovely.”. GRRR.
Even looking at the names written in Irish is so beautiful. Such a shame we’ve lot so many of them.
Colin that is so utterly insensitive of people. As if you would value any child over the other or love them less due to gender. People are very strange with that kind of carry on.
When I was pregnant I used to get the same weird tripe, I didn’t want to know if I was carrying a boy or a girl as I really didn’t care one way or the other. I had picked the name Jordan, but everyone assumed I had picked it because I was ‘longing’ for a boy. I was 18. I was probably ‘longing’ for a cool clothes* that fitted me better.
* remembers terrible denim dungarees*
Has anyone thought about giving their kids their (maiden) name? How do people feel about this? How would their menfolk feel about it? The double-barrelled option is not a very elegant solution.
Arlene, you mentioned that your daughter’s surname is the same as yours – would be interested to know more. I have a (probably insane) idea that if you had two children, you could give them a parent’s surname each – would that be a logistical nightmare? Legally fraught? Confusing? Emotionally weird?
My daughter goes to school with a girl who has her mum’s name and her brother has her dad’s name.
Interesting, how you you decide which child got which name? Would it be by gender? say boy got the dad’s girl got the mam’s? Seem like it would be a little like what Aidan was describing up along the thread.
yeah, Jordan got my surname as I was unmarried back in ’91 and it was just the done thing. Although a friend of mind who had a child as a single mam- legally speaking- recently simply registered her child with the dad’s surname.
Can’t speak for how men might feel about it, I’ll let them answer that one themselves, but if I was to have another child we would hyphen our names. Which would not be so bad actually, if a little long winded.
Apparently 80% of women (no doubt this is a Daily Hate Mail trufax) take their husbands name on marriage. I have been with the same man for nearly ten years – how immensely weird would it be to all of a sudden change my name the second we walk up the registry office isle?
Very weird is the answer, and so I shall not be doing that, thank you. I like my name, it is, I realise more and more over the years, a very large part of how I identity myself and I would be bereft to have to change it – and would certainly not do so willingly.
To be honest I wouldn’t get too upset about the in laws sending letters addressed to his surname
They’re just a different generation, different values.
Mine do this to me too – ten years on it still makes me laugh when I see the envelope.
Why don’t you think double-barrelled names are “elegant, Sylvia? Each to their own, but sometimes the two names flow together beautifully.
I remember one girl in my primary school had divorced parents (such a novelty in the 80s/90s) and she had a double-barrelled name. We all thought it was pretty fabulous and that she was so, so sophisticated, and looking back, it actually did suit her very well!
Yes, my daughters are delighted to be Caldwell-Kennys, have often said how dull it would be just to be Kennys.
Are they sustainable, though? Do John X-Y and Mary A-B’s kids become the little X-Y-A-Bs (and so on)?
My family, especially my brothers, were *astonished* I was keeping my name. Such an insult to my husband!
I got married in America where everyone pronounced Whelan “Way-len” and it drove me absolutely nuts. Paul was shocked when I went to the DMV a few days after we got married to change my name, he hadn’t expected me to and we’d never even spoken about it, but I was so sick of my name being mangled, that a nice Anglo-saxon name was very appealing. Now we’re back in Ireland and no one can bloody well say Hadley, they think it’s Hanley! You just can’t win!